And he is said to deserve it, inasmuch as his unjust will is chastised thereby. Just two weeks ago we learned that our first daughter (Grace) died on the Feast of St. Rose of Lima (we cried). Thanks for sharing “God in the Dock: Tragedy and Trilemma”. We have to be careful to understand rightly what it means for Jesus to “assume” our sins. the article completely mis-characterizes atheism and paints it with a single, two-dimensional brush. The Church simply has an advantage here, partially because she has simply *been here* much longer than Protestantism. I have an MA in theology and your article is clear, concise and well thought out. There is a very different view of suffering on the Catholic side o’ town. You cannot force it upon them. That’s one of the gifts He has given to the saints in heaven, by allowing them to be genuine intercessors on our behalf. The explanation lies in the nature and purpose of the stories of the martyrs, as with most of the stories of the saints. Did we tithe? God made man to be with Him in perfect happiness forever. What I would like to ask you is, have you written a book on this subject and have you gone on tour speaking about this? The premise is that if sin separates us from God, and Jesus was assuming our sins, that would be the first and only time he was separated from God and that was what he “feared.” Inasmuch that we, as humans, can understand would this be an accurate depiction in respect to the teachings of the Catholic Church? Notice the contrast with those who think that suffering is pointless. Then Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head, and he fell to the ground and worshiped. It was as if at the moment Grace entered heaven, she joined in prayer with Rose of Lima to bring us home to the Catholic Church. (2Cor. I believe atheism to be a false and deeply harmful philosophy, but I love and admire and respect atheists as persons, and hope through dialogue to overcome divisions and peacefully work through disagreements. While it is true that we all suffer and have experienced the suffering of others, it also seems to be the case that we attempt to I was beginning to despair in the seemingly meaninglessness that too easy floods over my tiny brain in the day to day misery of my own secluded life….but at least for this one moment, as a Catholic convert, I can truly thank God for the terrifying feelings of seemingly meaninglessness added to my original mental anguish….He has made every road possible for me it seems. Faced with such vulnerability, mans first instinct is to do what Adam did:  run and hide. a relation of being — this body does not merely belong to that saint, as he might have possessed a book or a cloak; this body is that saint, not the entirety of the saint, of course, but nonetheless his bodily component). I had always thought that this was an attribute of God alone. Books upon books have been written about the problem of suffering. The hypostatic union was not lost. Except for about a year of my son’s infancy with unexplained breathing problems, trips to the ER, and having to sleep upright with him on my chest so that he could breath, most of my suffering has been living in fear as I’ve borrowed from the future time and again,imagining all the “what if’s” that lie before me. I apologize for the personal nature of my comment, but I hope that my comments are not dismissed either. Which I just finished. Suffering has no meaning, and the goal becomes maximizing pleasure and avoiding pain. Pope John Paul II says of this passage, “Thus to share in the sufferings of Christ is, at the same time, to suffer for the Kingdom of God. If we have never sought, we seek Thee now; St. Thomas Aquinas, drawing from St. Gregory the Great, says, “the evils which bear us down here drive us to go to God.”21 But we can harden our hearts and turn away from God even more, in our suffering.22, God sometimes allows suffering into our lives to provoke us to search for Him, and to realize that this present life is not our final end, but a temporary test in which our eternal destiny is determined.23. . What does the Catholic Church say about the meaning of suffering? Today I’ve published a short post at Strange Notions titled “God in the Dock: Tragedy and Trilemma” for his twenty-first birthday. Theodore Vitali (personal conversation, April 2, 2013). You are a blessing from above. What is God doing? I find it to be a welcome resource in this very convoluted and somewhat frightening endeavor. :). Hi Susan, That experience shaped her understanding of empathy, suffering and really her entire philosophy. Relax, don’t worry about about your children’s faith or their salvation. Atheism, according to the historical use of the term I am following, is a belief that there is no God. The petitions of the members of the Church militant, pertain to the saints in heaven. Incidentally, my mom’s favorite saying to us growing up when things weren’t going our way was “just offer it up” which at that time used to drive me nuts. Please let me know how you are doing. ), To ask for the intercession of a saint, in the presence of his or her body, is to do two things: (1) to honor that saint, by implicitly recognizing his heroic virtue and present glory, and (2) to draw near to that saint. Much of contemporary theology, he acknowledges, has shifted from questions of individual meaning (like those his mentor, Paul Tillich, posed) to problems of the … And likewise, when speaking of redemptive suffering, I’m also speaking of a redemption that transcends death, not one that is lost to the person at death. Psalm 115:16. Thou hast executed true judgments in all that thou hast brought upon us… for in truth and justice thou hast brought all this upon us because of our sins.” (Daniel 3:4-5) [, Ultimately there are three options. “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” is the opening verse of Psalm 22. Sorry about your loss. I’m exhausted ;) I have had a dark night of the soul and I believe that I experienced what it is too have grace taken away. There does not need to be any negative evidence to disprove God’s existence for atheism; the lack of positive evidence for God’s existence is a sufficient basis for atheism. . Through man’s sin, all four harmonies were lost. It is a gift of mercy by which we are being led to repentance and eternal life.32 It is also a gift by which we know that God is working some great good in us. That is the best answer I’ve got. Why does God allow all the suffering we experience in this life, if He loves us and is all-powerful and all-knowing? Remember, all atheism says is that, absent evidence of God’s existence, the atheist does not believe. The Gospels were different in their intention and their nature. Nor did the Son in His human nature cease to see the Father (i.e. Did we pray the prayer of faith? Suffering is deeply vexing and leaves us deeply wounded, a wound that can only be healed and redeemed by our suffering, dying and risen Lord. The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom was plunged into darkness. I have addressed that question (whether Adam and Eve would have suffered and died had they not sinned) briefly in comment #5 of the “Lawrence Feingold on Original Justice and Original Sin” thread. I don’t even know when I have grace. In language those familiar with the Theology of the Body might say, the life lived via the flesh reveals what we choose to have communion with. The more sin abounds, the more suffering abounds. However, as a witness to others’ suffering, or plumbing the real reasons for it, I go with you, GNW, I can be with the mystery. By ‘atheism’ I do not mean “simply lack of belief in the existence of God.” As the term has been used historically, babies, puppies, and trees are not atheists. But the early Christians saw things quite differently from those around them. [Of course I do not think that people who are sick or wounded are normally being punished.]. “I appeal to you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.”55. In having a body, Christ elevated every aspect of our faculties towards their true purpose:  serving God. Yes, you may quote from my post, and any other post I’ve written here. The theology undergirdin… We can respond to it in two ultimate ways, either by turning toward God in trust, or by turning away from God in distrust and anger. (3) God is good and loving, and thus has a good reason for allowing us to suffer and die. I appreciate the effort and intention (as I understand it) of CTC. It is also not a means of gaining points with God, nor of subduing th… I have lost everything and it does not matter. If God is all powerful, and truly seeks our good, then why does He allow bad things to happen to people? In all honesty, because I have suffered a lot in this life already, I have so much fear of what will happen next. What they are really looking for, more than an explanation, is a reassuring look on their parent’s face. Secondly, the article suggests that atheists believe the presence of suffering proves God does not exist. His suffering was greater than any person has ever experienced, because in solidarity with us He took on Himself the sins of the whole world, and grieved in contrition on our behalf over the evil of each sin ever committed, and its offensiveness to God. If he remained faithful to God, he COULD NOT suffer or die. Your sons prayers likely instigated your journey home. Atheism doesn’t say whether or not suffering should be avoided. The communion of the saints is also a great comfort in loss, for we know that our brothers and sisters who now see God face to face are not indifferent to us, but are joined to us in a mystical communion, and delight to intercede on our behalf. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.” It is in Christ’s Resurrection and exaltation that the Father has shown forth “the immeasurable greatness of his power in us who believe.” (CCC, 272) [, For Aristotle’s distinction between ‘friendship of utility’ and ‘true friendship,’ see, Aquinas writes: “If in this life human beings are rewarded by God for good deeds and punished for bad, as Eliphaz was endeavoring to establish, it apparently follows that the ultimate goal for human beings is in this life. I’m so glad I could be encouraging. A hermeneutic of suspicion is an epistemic stance that presupposes a particular philosophy, not a default means of arriving at truth. This was by Edward Shillito entitled, “Jesus of the Scars”. Our wounds are hurting us; where is the balm? Christ shows us the depths we must be willing to go to in that gift, even if it is the Cross. As is written in the first century work called the Didache, “The workings that befall you receive as good, knowing that apart from God nothing comes to pass.” We always have a choice in our suffering, whether to trust God as our loving Father, and receive the good gift that He is giving us, or to rail against God in distrust and anger, as though we know better than He does what is ultimately good for us. For they are afraid that they might receive the fruits of their labors here; they are afraid that divine justice detects a secret wound in them and, heaping external rewards on them, drives them away from internal ones. We know to-day what wounds are, have no fear, Why did the early Christians rejoicing in their suffering? 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